This podcast presents an in-depth exploration of fertility concerns and inquiries straight from those undergoing fertility treatment. Standing apart from the usual information found online, we dive headfirst into the real science and comprehensive research behind these challenges. Amidst all this, we never forget to honor our cherished tradition - celebrating the simple joys of Taco Tuesday!
What does it mean when your hCG is above the “discriminatory zone,” but a transvaginal ultrasound still shows an empty uterus? It raises concern—but it does not automatically diagnose an ectopic pregnancy or miscarriage.
In this episode of Taco Bout Fertility Tuesday, Dr. Mark Amols explains what the discriminatory level can—and cannot—tell us about an early pregnancy. He explores how this decades-old threshold became part of medical practice, why it represents a probability rather than a biological boundary, and how viable pregnancies can occasionally remain invisible even when hCG has crossed the expected level.
You’ll learn:
• The usual ultrasound sequence from gestational sac to cardiac activity • What “pregnancy of unknown location” actually means • Why PUL is not the same as an ectopic pregnancy • Why one hCG result should not automatically trigger methotrexate • The difference between a probable gestational sac and intracavitary fluid • How IVF dating, multiple gestations, symptoms, and follow-up change the interpretation
The key lesson: hCG provides a biochemical signal, while ultrasound provides anatomy. Neither one, by itself, tells the entire story.
Severe abdominal or pelvic pain, shoulder pain, dizziness, fainting, weakness, or heavy bleeding requires urgent medical evaluation. This episode is educational and is not a substitute for individualized medical care.
Thanks for tuning in to another episode of 'Taco Bout Fertility Tuesday' with Dr. Mark Amols. If you found this episode insightful, please share it with friends and family who might benefit from our discussion. Remember, your feedback is invaluable to us – leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your preferred listening platform.
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Join us next Tuesday for more discussions on fertility, where we blend medical expertise with a touch of humor to make complex topics accessible and engaging. Until then, keep the conversation going and remember: understanding your fertility is a journey we're on together.
>> Dr. Mark Amols:
Today, we talk about the empty uterus. When your hCG is high enough that someone says we should see something, but the ultrasound still shows nothing. And why that may not mean what you think. I'm Dr. Mark Amols, and this is Taco Bout Fertility Tuesday. In last week's episode, I told you about a 1981 paper that helped create the rule that your hCG has to double. Twenty patients, an 85% confidence boundary, and a rule that would misclassify roughly one in seven healthy pregnancies. Today I want to tell you about the paper printed six pages earlier in that same issue, same journal, same volume, same year, same lead author. Kadar, 1981, page 156, the discriminatory zone. And Kadar, 1981, page 162, the doubling rule. These two numbers that have governed 45 years of early pregnancy anxiety, published back-to-back. One issue, one research group. Now, in last week's podcast, we discussed that your hCG can rise more slowly than expected and the pregnancy can still be healthy. But today is the mirror image. Your hCG can be higher than expected, your uterus can look completely empty, and a healthy pregnancy can still be too early to see. So let's start with the safety part first. Just like last week, and for the same reason. The same reason why? If you go to an ER and you have foot pain, you're going to wait four to six hours because the person with chest pain is going to be more important because they have the risk of dying. Well, severe or worsening abdominal pain, one-sided pelvic pain, shoulder pain, dizziness, weakness, fainting, or even heavy bleeding, you get evaluated right away—today. Don't wait until your next blood draw. Don't wait until your hCG crosses some threshold. Everything I'm about to discuss applies to interpreting an ultrasound in a stable patient. None of this should delay urgent evaluation when significant symptoms are present. As we talked about last week, symptoms outrank the spreadsheet. Always. Now, regardless of your hCG levels and how they're rising when you go to your early pregnancy scan, we look for generally four findings, and usually they appear in this sequence. First we look for what's called the gestational sac, the small, dark circle implanted in the uterine lining, usually around five weeks. Then we expect to see the yolk sac. This is a tiny ring inside the gestational sac, usually around five to five and a half weeks. Then the embryo and then cardiac activity. Sometimes cardiac activity and the embryo are seen at the same time. This is usually around six weeks to six weeks and three days. But these are approximate milestones, not appointments a pregnancy placed on a calendar. The meaning of an absent finding depends on dating, the measurement, the type of ultrasound, and what appears on follow-up. This means if you go in for an ultrasound and they see a very small gestational sac without the yolk sac, that by itself is not bad news. The context matters. It may simply be an early pregnancy doing exactly what an early pregnancy does. But as a patient, you hear, well, we don't see the yolk sac yet. And you look at that as, okay, something's wrong. But in reality, it's just that we don't have enough information yet. I'm not saying there isn't something wrong. What I'm saying is that we have to look at all the information, but sometimes we scan the uterus and we don't find evidence of a pregnancy inside or outside the uterus. Now, the hCG is positive, but the uterus is empty, and there's nothing visible even near the ovary or the tube. And this has a name. We call this pregnancy of unknown location. Sometimes you'll see it written as PUL. And this is an important point because PUL is not an ectopic pregnancy. Think of it as a temporary label, not a final diagnosis. Essentially, we have biochemical evidence of a pregnancy, but the ultrasound cannot locate it. Yet, in most of these situations, it will declare itself as one of three things. Either as an early intrauterine pregnancy that was too small to see, an early pregnancy loss that is passing or resolving, or an ectopic pregnancy that has not yet become visible, and it is only the follow-up that will help determine which one it is while keeping the patient safe. So when your doctor says, let's repeat the hCG and scan again, that is not your doctor not having a plan. It's active surveillance. That is the plan. It means allowing the pregnancy to provide more evidence instead of forcing a verdict from information that may not support one verdict or the other. And like I discussed last week, this takes us to the discriminatory level. This is where the hCG value gets to a level where we would expect to see an intrauterine gestational sac on transvaginal ultrasound. Now, below this level, it may just mean that it's just too early. But when it's above that level, that's where things become concerning. Now, from your perspective, you may think, oh, my God, if it hits that level, I'm in danger because it sounds like a very clean border, but it's not. Every single clinic is going to have their own discriminatory level. To give you an idea, years ago, when they were only using transabdominal ultrasound, the range was like 6,000. Whereas once we started using transvaginal ultrasound, the range was closer to 1,000 and usually not higher than 3,000. This is because there are differences in equipment, operators, patient populations, hormone assays, and even definitions of what counts as a visible sac. That means that with Dr. A, if your hCG is 1,500 and their discriminatory zone is 1,000, they're concerned. But at another clinic, Dr. B, they may not be able to see anything until 2,000. So at 1,500, they may just continue to watch. So, unfortunately, I can't give you a number that specifically you need to be worried about. I want you just to understand what they're doing and why they're waiting. Now, the number most quoted today usually comes from Connolly and colleagues. Their statistical model predicted that a gestational sac would be visible about 1% of the time at an hCG level around 390 and 99% of the time at an hCG level around 3,510. Even in a recent study, they landed almost in the same neighborhood, just under 4,000 for a 99% visualization. 99% is quite compelling, but it's not 100%. And when the proposed treatment can end a desired pregnancy, that remaining uncertainty matters. And that is what makes it so difficult. As a physician, I want to make sure your baby has the best chance, which means until I know 100%, your plan can change daily. And as a patient, this can be frustrating because usually you're used to definitive plans. But the reason is altruistic. It's because we want you to have your baby and we don't want to do something that could harm it. Now, interestingly, another study searched 11 years of records specifically for the exceptions. The goal wasn't to study how often an exception occurs. It was designed to answer a more basic question. Can it occur at all? They identified 202 patients whose initial transvaginal ultrasound showed no intrauterine fluid collection, but who later had an ultrasound showing an intrauterine pregnancy with cardiac activity. Nine of these had an initial hCG above 2,000, and the highest hCG in the entire group was about 6,567. The highest hCG followed by a term live birth was 4,336. Think about that: an hCG of 4,300, an apparently empty uterus, and a term delivery. That patient was above every commonly used transvaginal threshold. That did not make the pregnancy ectopic. It demonstrated why the threshold cannot be used as a diagnosis. This is what makes pregnancy of unknown location so difficult, because one wrong decision leads to ending a pregnancy that could have been a live birth. The other decision can lead to a ruptured tube from an ectopic pregnancy and put you in the hospital—or, worst case, cause death. Up to now, we've been talking about seeing nothing in the uterus, but sometimes we do see something. And the challenge is deciding what that something represents. There's an old term from our field called a pseudogestational sac, or a pseudosac. In the traditional teaching, an ectopic pregnancy could cause fluid or blood to collect inside the uterine cavity and imitate an early gestational sac. Now, that possibility is real, but older teaching made it sound much more common and much more diagnostic than modern evidence suggests. Essentially, equipment has gotten better, and we can distinguish between fluid collections and actual gestational sacs. Now, for historical purposes, let's discuss where this came from. Lee and colleagues reviewed more than 1,200 patients whose pregnancy location was uncertain. Among the patients who had intrauterine fluid collection, only 2.2% ultimately were diagnosed with an ectopic pregnancy. When they looked at that fluid collection, they found the size of the collection did not distinguish ectopic from intrauterine pregnancy. That means most of these collections represent an intrauterine pregnancy, but that includes both continuing pregnancies and miscarriages. So what this means is that if you see this fluid collection, the careful conclusion is not, "There's fluid, so everything must be fine." It's more like, if I see a sac-like collection that may be fluid, it shifts the odds toward an intrauterine pregnancy, but doesn't tell us the pregnancy is going to continue. Now, again, this is historical because modern ultrasound technology separates the two findings that used to get mixed together. A rounded, sac-like structure, even without a yolk sac, is usually called a gestational sac. Irregular fluid sitting inside the endometrial cavity is now described as intracavitary fluid. Doctors still use the word "pseudosac," but it is technically discouraged these days. Now, where doctors take a big breath and feel much more relaxed is when they see the yolk sac, because that's the major dividing line at this point. It confirms that this is an intrauterine pregnancy. Before the yolk sac appears, the scan may tell us, "Yeah, it's probably in the uterus," but it's not definitive. So why is this such a tough thing? Well, because in early pregnancy, several situations can look somewhat similar on the same ultrasound. For example, an intrauterine pregnancy that implanted correctly but the embryo did not develop is called a blighted ovum. Now we call it an anembryonic pregnancy. And the placental tissue is still going to keep producing hCG, but the yolk sac doesn't develop. So even with further ultrasounds, it's sometimes concerning. Could this be a fake sac, such as a pseudosac, or is it just a blighted ovum? And as I mentioned today, it's a lot easier to distinguish because our ultrasounds are better. We can clearly see the difference between a an irregular border and a nice round sac. But there are other things that can sometimes make it more difficult to know what these numbers mean. For example, if you have multiple gestations, if someone walks in and maybe they were taking Clomid at home and they have twins, first you're not sure about the dating. So when you check the hCG level, it's at 2,500, and you think, oh, my goodness, there's nothing in the uterus. But in reality, each pregnancy is only 1,250. So it may be normal not to see the pregnancy at this point, but because you don't know that there are multiple gestations, it makes the decision difficult. This is why we have to get the full story. If we know someone's on medication that can cause multiples or has a family history of multiples, we may be willing to wait a little longer because the goal is still the same. We don't want to hurt a healthy pregnancy. The same issue arises with spontaneous conception. There are some women who don't have regular periods, and so when they come in and they say they're pregnant, we don't know if they're four weeks, six weeks, eight weeks. This is where we have to use the hCG and imaging to help determine what the next best step is. Unfortunately, not all pregnancies produce the same hCG level or become visible at the exact same moment. I wish they did, but unfortunately they don't. So the professional guidance on this is different depending on where you are. If you're in the ER, basically, if you're symptomatic, you should always get an ultrasound regardless of the hCG level. Usually, they will then discuss it with an OB/GYN. ACOG, which is the organization for OB/GYNs, states that the discriminatory level should be used, but it should be set conservatively high. And this is to reduce the risk of interrupting a potentially continuing intrauterine pregnancy. The general theme: let the number inform the evaluation; the number itself shouldn't end the evaluation. This is the most important distinction in this episode. The discriminatory level was developed to help interpret an ultrasound. It was not designed as an automatic trigger for methotrexate. Methotrexate, a chemotherapy agent, interferes with folate metabolism and cell division. It is one of the most common treatments for ectopic pregnancies. Exposure can seriously harm an intrauterine pregnancy, but there's no undo button. So in a stable patient with a desired pregnancy, an hCG level somewhat above the threshold, but no definitive pregnancy seen anywhere, usually requires another hCG and another ultrasound and close follow-up. Not automatic treatment. But here's where I need to be very clear. This is also not a reason to delay treatment. When an ectopic pregnancy is visualized, when the total clinical picture makes one direction highly likely, or if the patient is unstable, you can then move forward diagnosing an ectopic pregnancy based on one hCG value and a nondiagnostic scan. We had a patient we thought had an ectopic. She came in, we saw fluid in the cul-de-sac, which is in the pelvis. We knew it was a ruptured fallopian tube because just the day before there was no fluid. Even without evidence that the ectopic pregnancy was there, we made the right decision. So clinical picture always overrules numbers and ultrasounds. Now, fertility patients are a little bit unique because your dating is precise. We know exactly when an embryo was transferred. We may not know to the exact hour it implanted, but knowing the dating removes one source of uncertainty. At the same time, if we put more embryos back, we know that the hCG level may initially be higher. So if we know the dating of a pregnancy and you go past that and we don't see it in the uterus, we can feel much more comfortable making the diagnosis of an ectopic pregnancy, even if we don't see it. And this is one of the things we have to balance. If we know that there's a possibility of an ectopic pregnancy or an abnormal pregnancy—meaning the pregnancy itself is going to fail—then we won't be concerned about giving methotrexate because we know we won't harm a healthy pregnancy. That's a very difficult decision. But because fertility patients are different and have different risk factors, including a higher risk of ectopic pregnancy, your journey with a pregnancy of unknown location may be completely different from the general population. So the take-home message is five things. One, when you do an ultrasound, usually the sequence is the gestational sac first, yolk sac, embryo, and cardiac activity. These usually occur between five and six weeks. Not seeing a later finding on one of the early scans doesn't itself make a diagnosis. For example, you come in at seven weeks and you see a gestational sac and then see the yolk sac five days later, that's normal because the progression kept going. Number two, pregnancy of unknown location is not a type of ectopic pregnancy. It's just a temporary label that requires active follow-up. So if they give you that, don't think you have an ectopic; it just means there's a possibility. Number three, the discriminatory level is a probability. It's not a biological boundary and not a treatment threshold. It's used just to help make decisions. Number four, an hCG level above the discriminatory level with an empty uterus raises concern. But again, it does not diagnose an ectopic pregnancy in a stable patient. And number five, a probable gestational sac and intracavitary fluid are not the same thing. As we talked about before, if you see a yolk sac inside the gestational sac, that confirms an intrauterine pregnancy. So last week your hCG can rise more slowly than the rulebook says and the pregnancy can still be healthy. But this week we're talking about how your hCG can be above the rulebook's threshold and a healthy pregnancy can still be a few days too early to see. So hCG gives us the biochemical signal, ultrasound gives us the anatomy, but neither of them alone tells us what's happening next. And as always, listen to your doctor. Every situation is different. This podcast is just to give you information so you can understand what's going on. The clinical picture is so important. So again, this is education, not a rule. If you've had a pregnancy of unknown location or maybe an hCG level that they were concerned about, or maybe you know someone who had something similar, let them know about this podcast. It may help them understand their situation or what they went through. Maybe they also had a doctor who kept changing the plan, and they thought, "Why is my doctor changing the plan?" Now you can tell them that this was actually normal. As always, if you love this podcast, please give us a five-star review on your favorite medium. Tell your friends about us, but most of all, keep coming back. I look forward to talking with you again next week on Taco Bout Fertility Tuesday.
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